So, since we have three 2007 cars in our family, thought I’d write my thoughts down.
Maryam’s BMW 325i cost about $40,000. My dad’s new hybrid Toyota Camry cost about $35,000. My new Saturn Aura cost about $25,000.
Which one is best?
That’s hard to pick, because it depends on price level (it’s unfair to compare a $40,000 car with a $25,000 one).
Best headlamps? BMW and Toyota (they turn when you turn and are the new gas-based ones that are bluer in color than regular lamps and brighter, too).
Best rear seats? Saturn. Much more room than the other two and having a separate back-seat radio is killer for Patrick.
Best technology? Toyota. It’s a hybrid.
Best key? Tie between Toyota and BMW. UPDATE: my brother reminded me that the Toyota lets you start the car from outside the car, without even inserting the key, so the Toyota wins the coolest key award. The BMW key is also the FOB, Saturn’s has two separate pieces, the FOB and the key.
Best handling? BMW.
Best ride? Very hard to tell the difference. Want to have a “is HDTV sharper” debate? Heheh.
Best gas mileage? Toyota, cause of hybrid.
Best brand name? Toyota for everyday buyers, BMW for higher end.
Coolest touch? LED lights under the handles on our BMW.
Best stereo? The Saturn came with XM Satellite radio built in. The others didn’t. Sound quality wise, very hard to tell, all three cars have awesome stereos.
Car I’d choose if money were no object? BMW.
Car I’d choose if money WERE an object? Saturn.
Car I’ll probably get laughed at most when driving into Silicon Valley country club? Saturn.
Quietest inside? Toyota, due to hybrid engine, closely followed by Saturn. BMW is noiser.
Best geek car? Toyota, due to nav system and hybrid.
Best tires? BMW (no flats). At least until they wear out, then you’ll question the $400 per tire cost.
Best dashboard design? Saturn, although if you like something that makes you think of Star Trek, the Toyota is pretty cool.
Most chick appeal? BMW. Maryam says she ain’t giving hers up.
Most iPod/Zune friendly? Not sure. I haven’t found the aux input on Toyota or Saturn yet. Patrick says the back seat satellite radio rocks, though. I have a feeling he’s listening to the R-rated comedy channel.
Safest? I don’t know, but I believe both the BMW and Saturn have six airbags and anti-lock brakes.
Resale value? I bet the Toyota will be easiest to resell, Saturn hardest.
Coolest looking? BMW, hands down. Both the Camry and Aura are boring family mobiles.
Anyway, enough about cars for a while.
Oh, regarding driving, Maryam officially became a Scoble today as we got our new drivers licenses and she opted to put Scoble on hers. That’ll save everyone from asking her how she says Ghaemmaghami. 
OK, I’ve owned 7 saturns and all of them suffered from extreme road noisyness… how quiet is the Aura? And which model did you purchase?
OK, I’ve owned 7 saturns and all of them suffered from extreme road noisyness… how quiet is the Aura? And which model did you purchase?
Adam: the dealer experience was the same — both were really good and I had no complaints. Yeah, found the AUX input.
Adam: the dealer experience was the same — both were really good and I had no complaints. Yeah, found the AUX input.
Yes, I work for GM, but I like to consider myself open-minded and objective. Glad to see you hopped on board the Saturn express, so I thought I’d offer a few tips and tricks…
1. You can get remote start on the Saturn as an option (and I suspect it works just like the Toyota). BMW, to my knowledge, doesn’t do that particular trick (yet).
2. Your AUX input for your Zune/iPod should be on the lower right corner of your radio faceplate.
I’d also be interested to hear a comparison of your dealer/shopping experiences, given that’s one of the things Saturn gets a lot of press about.
Yes, I work for GM, but I like to consider myself open-minded and objective. Glad to see you hopped on board the Saturn express, so I thought I’d offer a few tips and tricks…
1. You can get remote start on the Saturn as an option (and I suspect it works just like the Toyota). BMW, to my knowledge, doesn’t do that particular trick (yet).
2. Your AUX input for your Zune/iPod should be on the lower right corner of your radio faceplate.
I’d also be interested to hear a comparison of your dealer/shopping experiences, given that’s one of the things Saturn gets a lot of press about.
“my brother reminded me that the Toyota lets you start the car from outside the car, without even inserting the key, so the Toyota wins the coolest key award”
Perfect for clearing out all those car-bombs..
“my brother reminded me that the Toyota lets you start the car from outside the car, without even inserting the key, so the Toyota wins the coolest key award”
Perfect for clearing out all those car-bombs..
Well, this is really a comparison of three different cars. The new Camry is nice, but a total bore. The hybrid system is a plus, but as some have mentioned, doesn’t live up to the hype, yet. Word is the next Prius will use lithium-ion/polymer batteries instead of the current nickel based batts. Expect more cost, but also a lot more performance and fuel economy.
What you’re forgetting about the BMW is the handling. You mentioned it as the best, but it really goes beyond that. The handling of the BMW is so far superior to those other cars, and with the sports package, is probably far superior to the majority of cars on the road today. It is just effortless. And don’t forget that there is more to safety than airbags. The handling of the BMW can contribute to you AVOIDING an accident, and will take better care of its occupants if you do get in to one.
The gas-filled lights are called HID, or high intensity discharge, sometimes also called Xenon. With the curve sensing features, they really are highly superior to halogen. Just compare driving in the rain with HID’s and you will see the difference. There is some argumentation about the blinding of other drivers, but it isn’t that the lights are really that much brighter. Rather, it is the harsh cutoff that the lights produce. Whereas a halogen light will gradually fade off, the HID will abruptly transition from dark to light, causing the eye to detect it as brighter, when it actually is not.
My 2006 MB ML has the curve sensing HIDs, and also has cornering foglamps. During low speed turns, the foglamp on the side of the car that you are turning in to will light, giving you that much more light where you need it most. When I get a loaner for service, I’m constantly checking to see whether the lights are on, since the halogens just don’t cut it.
Well, this is really a comparison of three different cars. The new Camry is nice, but a total bore. The hybrid system is a plus, but as some have mentioned, doesn’t live up to the hype, yet. Word is the next Prius will use lithium-ion/polymer batteries instead of the current nickel based batts. Expect more cost, but also a lot more performance and fuel economy.
What you’re forgetting about the BMW is the handling. You mentioned it as the best, but it really goes beyond that. The handling of the BMW is so far superior to those other cars, and with the sports package, is probably far superior to the majority of cars on the road today. It is just effortless. And don’t forget that there is more to safety than airbags. The handling of the BMW can contribute to you AVOIDING an accident, and will take better care of its occupants if you do get in to one.
The gas-filled lights are called HID, or high intensity discharge, sometimes also called Xenon. With the curve sensing features, they really are highly superior to halogen. Just compare driving in the rain with HID’s and you will see the difference. There is some argumentation about the blinding of other drivers, but it isn’t that the lights are really that much brighter. Rather, it is the harsh cutoff that the lights produce. Whereas a halogen light will gradually fade off, the HID will abruptly transition from dark to light, causing the eye to detect it as brighter, when it actually is not.
My 2006 MB ML has the curve sensing HIDs, and also has cornering foglamps. During low speed turns, the foglamp on the side of the car that you are turning in to will light, giving you that much more light where you need it most. When I get a loaner for service, I’m constantly checking to see whether the lights are on, since the halogens just don’t cut it.
Doug: on the Saturn it’s right next to the button that says “Aux.” Heheh.
Doug: on the Saturn it’s right next to the button that says “Aux.” Heheh.
The Aux input on the Camry (at least for the non-hybrid model) is in the bottom right corner of the flip up compartment beneath the AC controls. Once it detects something is plugged in there, then you can switch the radio to the Aux input.
The Aux input on the Camry (at least for the non-hybrid model) is in the bottom right corner of the flip up compartment beneath the AC controls. Once it detects something is plugged in there, then you can switch the radio to the Aux input.
Tim-great links! I’ll use them in future podcasts I do on the Prius or Camry for The Next Gear-thanks!
Tim-great links! I’ll use them in future podcasts I do on the Prius or Camry for The Next Gear-thanks!
Robert,
Your father might be interested in visiting my brother’s websites on Hybrid cards. The most information about the hybrids can be found at http://priuschat.com and he also runs a smaller http://camrychat.com . Both are forum sites that have lots of information about the cars, and PriusChat is loaded with members that know more about the cars than most of the salespeople!
Robert,
Your father might be interested in visiting my brother’s websites on Hybrid cards. The most information about the hybrids can be found at http://priuschat.com and he also runs a smaller http://camrychat.com . Both are forum sites that have lots of information about the cars, and PriusChat is loaded with members that know more about the cars than most of the salespeople!
Interesting you think Hybrids are better? They may be eventually but with the current generation you are just using two compromised technologies and getting about the worst aspects of each.
http://rcd.typepad.com/personal/2007/01/its_not_easy_be.html
Interesting you think Hybrids are better? They may be eventually but with the current generation you are just using two compromised technologies and getting about the worst aspects of each.
http://rcd.typepad.com/personal/2007/01/its_not_easy_be.html
Did you find the Aux input yet? On my Prius, it is way down at the bottom of the inside front of the center console/armrest. Maybe yours is in some off-the-wall place like that, too.
I do love plugging in my Zen and listening to audio books on my commute. Now if I could just figure out how to get free podcasts and videos loaded I would be set.
Did you find the Aux input yet? On my Prius, it is way down at the bottom of the inside front of the center console/armrest. Maybe yours is in some off-the-wall place like that, too.
I do love plugging in my Zen and listening to audio books on my commute. Now if I could just figure out how to get free podcasts and videos loaded I would be set.
Mr. Scoble… Ya know… that hybrid is worth $10K off your dad’s taxes. That’s probably worth the lack of trunk space. ‘Course he probably doesn’t have to lug a gob of recording gear around.
Congrats on the purchase and especially the birthday. Happy 42 bud!
Mr. Scoble… Ya know… that hybrid is worth $10K off your dad’s taxes. That’s probably worth the lack of trunk space. ‘Course he probably doesn’t have to lug a gob of recording gear around.
Congrats on the purchase and especially the birthday. Happy 42 bud!
Robert,
You said:
Car I’ll probably get laughed at most when driving into Silicon Valley country club? Saturn.
I say:
So what? If people judge you by the car you drive, they should be flogged as shallow-minded losers. If you let it bother you, you’re not a man confortable with himself. If you are comfortable with yourself as a man, then driving up in Fred Sanford’s truck shouldn’t bother you. People that feel the need to drive expensive cars have issues. Period.
The smartest people I know drive the cheapest cars. The reverse is almost never true in my experience.
Robert,
You said:
Car I’ll probably get laughed at most when driving into Silicon Valley country club? Saturn.
I say:
So what? If people judge you by the car you drive, they should be flogged as shallow-minded losers. If you let it bother you, you’re not a man confortable with himself. If you are comfortable with yourself as a man, then driving up in Fred Sanford’s truck shouldn’t bother you. People that feel the need to drive expensive cars have issues. Period.
The smartest people I know drive the cheapest cars. The reverse is almost never true in my experience.
Ben says: “Second hand cars are a crap shoot in my experience. You don’t know the history, typically have next to no warranty and they certainly have no sexiness about them.”
I beg to differ! I bought a Miata in 2000 (1999 model) with 9000 miles on it. It had the remainder of the factory warranty. I paid $17,300 for the car with little negotiating (hey, I was a teenager — I didn’t realize how far most used car dealers will negotiate.) That same car new was going for $24,000, so I saved $7000 by waiting a year and getting a car with 9K miles on it that still smelled new.
I still drive that car on a daily basis and my Miata now has 130,000 miles on it. It’s been paid off since 2004; I put $12,000 down on it so I never had that much of a payment anyway. I’m very happy to not have a payment and I plan to buy my next car with mostly cash as well. I’d rather make money in the market than be paying money to others any day.
-Erica
Ben says: “Second hand cars are a crap shoot in my experience. You don’t know the history, typically have next to no warranty and they certainly have no sexiness about them.”
I beg to differ! I bought a Miata in 2000 (1999 model) with 9000 miles on it. It had the remainder of the factory warranty. I paid $17,300 for the car with little negotiating (hey, I was a teenager — I didn’t realize how far most used car dealers will negotiate.) That same car new was going for $24,000, so I saved $7000 by waiting a year and getting a car with 9K miles on it that still smelled new.
I still drive that car on a daily basis and my Miata now has 130,000 miles on it. It’s been paid off since 2004; I put $12,000 down on it so I never had that much of a payment anyway. I’m very happy to not have a payment and I plan to buy my next car with mostly cash as well. I’d rather make money in the market than be paying money to others any day.
-Erica
I’m still getting along very nicely with my 18-year-old Mark II Ford Orion 1.6i - cost £250 five years ago, averages about £250 a year in repairs and servicing, and goes like stink. That makes £1250 keeping it running, and I’ve covered 50,000 miles in that time for an average £25 per thousand miles (not counting other costs like insurance and fuel - it does about 40mpg on the motorway).
Best if all, there’s no depreciation: it’s still worth £250
I’m still getting along very nicely with my 18-year-old Mark II Ford Orion 1.6i - cost £250 five years ago, averages about £250 a year in repairs and servicing, and goes like stink. That makes £1250 keeping it running, and I’ve covered 50,000 miles in that time for an average £25 per thousand miles (not counting other costs like insurance and fuel - it does about 40mpg on the motorway).
Best if all, there’s no depreciation: it’s still worth £250
Oh, oh, another “HDTV is sharper” style argument is breaking out.
Heheh, how to piss off a new car owner? Walk up and say “I can’t see the difference between those funky Xenon headlamps and those on cheaper cars.”
Seriously, though. If there’s one thing that separates the BMW from the Saturn, it’s the headlamps. BWM’s rock. They turn as you turn, which GREATLY helps out going around turns (which I do a lot, since I live in Half Moon Bay and the only roads out of here are twisty, dark, ones).
David: they help 100% of the time you drive at night. Also, signs are a lot easier to read with Xenon lamps (they reflect better).
Oh, oh, another “HDTV is sharper” style argument is breaking out.
Heheh, how to piss off a new car owner? Walk up and say “I can’t see the difference between those funky Xenon headlamps and those on cheaper cars.”
Seriously, though. If there’s one thing that separates the BMW from the Saturn, it’s the headlamps. BWM’s rock. They turn as you turn, which GREATLY helps out going around turns (which I do a lot, since I live in Half Moon Bay and the only roads out of here are twisty, dark, ones).
David: they help 100% of the time you drive at night. Also, signs are a lot easier to read with Xenon lamps (they reflect better).
@24. The current generation of xenon lights don’t cause any significant problems (distraction, dazzle etc.) for either oncoming traffic, or traffic the car is following.
However, for the driver of the car with xenon lights, they offer significant advantages in most night-driving conditions. The benefits of these kind of lights are not in any sense “theoretical”.
The reason all cars don’t have these kind of lights is cost. It’s not that they don’t offer genuine benefits, as you seem to be suggesting.
@24. The current generation of xenon lights don’t cause any significant problems (distraction, dazzle etc.) for either oncoming traffic, or traffic the car is following.
However, for the driver of the car with xenon lights, they offer significant advantages in most night-driving conditions. The benefits of these kind of lights are not in any sense “theoretical”.
The reason all cars don’t have these kind of lights is cost. It’s not that they don’t offer genuine benefits, as you seem to be suggesting.
Ben: Devil’s Slide is fixed. In fact, it was the first 10 miles I drove in my new car! Lots of fun, too.
Marc: the BMW is better, but the Saturn is a lot better than you might expect. Particularly for a car that costs $15,000 less.
Ben: Devil’s Slide is fixed. In fact, it was the first 10 miles I drove in my new car! Lots of fun, too.
Marc: the BMW is better, but the Saturn is a lot better than you might expect. Particularly for a car that costs $15,000 less.
Yeah I am talking about the yellow car
My commute can take 10 minutes or 30 depending on the traffic, but the weather could be anything from 30 to 90 degrees in Seattle. Another factor I forgot to mention is that the more you pay for a car the better the climate control will tend to be.
Robert - is that road that collapsed near Half Moon Bay fixed yet or is it still out of action? That looked like part of a fun (but scary) drive.