Let’s check in with Google News. Nope, ethical problem still there.
John Furrier, my new boss, used to work at Hewlett Packard. Last night he was telling me how much he loved Hewlett Packard (he hates the new name, which was shortened to “HP”. Yeah, all the employees used to call it “HP” in the old days too, but that was a friendly shortening). He told me how he walked into the founder’s offices once (it wasn’t guarded or closed off separate from the employees) and walked up and said hi. It was an experience that he’ll never forget. He spent a bit telling me about “the Hewlett Packard way” and how it was such an important part of his upbringing as an entrepreneur.
He gave me a little bit of heck for dragging HP into this since it looks like it was just the chairwoman (although the rest of the board is sort of tainted because they didn’t walk out instantly when they found out what was going on). He stood up for the regular employees of HP. “Imagine you’re working in sales at HP, does this affect them?”
I’ve been thinking about that one all night. On one level, obviously no. But, on another? Yes. If your leaders are willing to break the law and spy on not just themselves but on outside parties, how comfortable will people be in dealing with Hewlett Packard?
Anyway, he told me that the Hewlett Packard way is important (the old way, the one before they changed their name, before they started doing this crud) and he wondered if there’s something we can do to bring the Hewlett Packard way back?
Yes. Get rid of Patricia Dunn. Then let’s work together to talk about the cool stuff those engineers are building so the salespeople can feel proud again.
If you let a cancer hang out in your body (the body here being a company) it just gets worse. It’s surgery time. Who has the knife?
Oh, I worked a summer at Hewlett Packard when I was in high school on an assembly line. I agree that the people there were awesome. Just wanted to make it clear that this isn’t about them. Just about one board member who thought that the ends justified the means. If she’s allowed to stay, though, she’ll spread her cancer throughout HP and stain the entire organization. So, it’s time for the good people of Hewlett Packard to stand up and do the right thing. Get rid of the stain on the Hewlett Packard way.
Be sure to check out Karel Baloun’s book (and related blogsite): Inside Facebook at
http://www.fbbook.com
Thanks,
Ted
Be sure to check out Karel Baloun’s book (and related blogsite): Inside Facebook at
http://www.fbbook.com
Thanks,
Ted
I get that we are all stakeholders in how our society works, and having it work well. But I don’t think voting in newspaper surveys on whether or not we think XYZ (the popular XYZ was O.J when the papers really got stupid about this) was guilty or not is a contribution to civil participation.
I understand this situation isn’t exactly like that, but it is a bit like the spectator’s calling for a gladiator’s execution.
Maybe worse. We don’t have all of the facts, and we’re not in a position to have them. And we shouldn’t rush to judgment. However the HP board’s leak-stoppage fiasco plays out, we won’t know much until it is over. This is not one of those situations that gets handled by a blog response.
I get that we are all stakeholders in how our society works, and having it work well. But I don’t think voting in newspaper surveys on whether or not we think XYZ (the popular XYZ was O.J when the papers really got stupid about this) was guilty or not is a contribution to civil participation.
I understand this situation isn’t exactly like that, but it is a bit like the spectator’s calling for a gladiator’s execution.
Maybe worse. We don’t have all of the facts, and we’re not in a position to have them. And we shouldn’t rush to judgment. However the HP board’s leak-stoppage fiasco plays out, we won’t know much until it is over. This is not one of those situations that gets handled by a blog response.
Credit? Who was taking credit? I said I had skin in the game and that I was using my words. Which is pretty obvious. But, who’ll be the one who really keeps the heat on? Me, or CNNMoney? http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/08/commentary/wastler/?postversion=2006090816
I vote for CNNMoney.
Credit? Who was taking credit? I said I had skin in the game and that I was using my words. Which is pretty obvious. But, who’ll be the one who really keeps the heat on? Me, or CNNMoney? http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/08/commentary/wastler/?postversion=2006090816
I vote for CNNMoney.
@48 I thought you said you weren’t going to be taking credit for any of this?
@48 I thought you said you weren’t going to be taking credit for any of this?
orcmid: I do have SOME skin in this game. We all do. If we allow corporations to run amok over our privacy then we all lose. And, how can we punish someone with hundreds of millions of dollars in their bank account? One way I can? To be merciless with my words.
orcmid: I do have SOME skin in this game. We all do. If we allow corporations to run amok over our privacy then we all lose. And, how can we punish someone with hundreds of millions of dollars in their bank account? One way I can? To be merciless with my words.
Robert, I am more inclined to Rickey’s council than your ad hominem stuff about HP leadership.
For one thing, you have no skin in this game (any more than does Steve Gilmor when he rants for the firing of specific Microsoft executives). Secondly, this is not an election and you are not on a jury. Commenting on their lack of transparency, and on the comparison with Ford Motor Company (FMC to its friends and family) are useful.
Calling for the guillotine is not very appropriate. It doesn’t leave much room for redemption. It doesn’t cultivate much mutual understanding and room for cleaning things up and putting in corrections for future conduct. We are all in the peanut gallery here, and that makes our posturing ridiculous.
Robert, I am more inclined to Rickey’s council than your ad hominem stuff about HP leadership.
For one thing, you have no skin in this game (any more than does Steve Gilmor when he rants for the firing of specific Microsoft executives). Secondly, this is not an election and you are not on a jury. Commenting on their lack of transparency, and on the comparison with Ford Motor Company (FMC to its friends and family) are useful.
Calling for the guillotine is not very appropriate. It doesn’t leave much room for redemption. It doesn’t cultivate much mutual understanding and room for cleaning things up and putting in corrections for future conduct. We are all in the peanut gallery here, and that makes our posturing ridiculous.
The original person who has leaked information to public put entire company at risk. There was reason why information was made confidential.
Ends justifies the means, eh? And who is to say any leaking actually happened? I have seen lots of companies spread public domain info, only to later call it ‘confidential’ when the spin doesn’t go their way. Maybe this ‘leak’ was a ‘gotcha’. Ex post facto?
The arrogance of Patricia Dunn is amazing, truly amazing, any non-tech company that deals with real PR, would of asked for her head, nearly second of, emergency vote, no dilly-dallying for days. I don’t know why HP is letting itself get dragged through the mud.
The original person who has leaked information to public put entire company at risk. There was reason why information was made confidential.
Ends justifies the means, eh? And who is to say any leaking actually happened? I have seen lots of companies spread public domain info, only to later call it ‘confidential’ when the spin doesn’t go their way. Maybe this ‘leak’ was a ‘gotcha’. Ex post facto?
The arrogance of Patricia Dunn is amazing, truly amazing, any non-tech company that deals with real PR, would of asked for her head, nearly second of, emergency vote, no dilly-dallying for days. I don’t know why HP is letting itself get dragged through the mud.
You don’t get entire picture folks.
The original person who has leaked information to public put entire company at risk. There was reason why information was made confidential.
Sure - information on somebody phone calls is also private - so both sides did wrong. But one side did this for his own benefit, while another did for company one (or at least believed so).
You don’t get entire picture folks.
The original person who has leaked information to public put entire company at risk. There was reason why information was made confidential.
Sure - information on somebody phone calls is also private - so both sides did wrong. But one side did this for his own benefit, while another did for company one (or at least believed so).
@40, I’m worried that the rot has started already.
Groklaw - an independent FOSS-friendly law-focused blog - posted a couple of articles on this HP case yesterday. I go to Groklaw today and can’t get to it.
Chilling effect?
@40, I’m worried that the rot has started already.
Groklaw - an independent FOSS-friendly law-focused blog - posted a couple of articles on this HP case yesterday. I go to Groklaw today and can’t get to it.
Chilling effect?
Media need to be much more aggressive on this. Worries me that they haven’t filed suit against HP already.
Ever worked in the journo biz? Ummm, pot calling kettle black. Media ain’t gonna sue, if they do, they are stupid, companies will just fight back libel-style. Besides journalists make misrepresentational-styled pretexting and other iffy private-eyeish methods a daily newsroom practice. The fact some got burnt, all parta the job. Too risky suing, opens up a can of uncontrollable worms. The aggression will come in the form of non-stop wall to wall coverage for weeks and constant revisits and snarky ironic jokes forever. Besides they are already gathering dirt a mile high…
Media need to be much more aggressive on this. Worries me that they haven’t filed suit against HP already.
Ever worked in the journo biz? Ummm, pot calling kettle black. Media ain’t gonna sue, if they do, they are stupid, companies will just fight back libel-style. Besides journalists make misrepresentational-styled pretexting and other iffy private-eyeish methods a daily newsroom practice. The fact some got burnt, all parta the job. Too risky suing, opens up a can of uncontrollable worms. The aggression will come in the form of non-stop wall to wall coverage for weeks and constant revisits and snarky ironic jokes forever. Besides they are already gathering dirt a mile high…
Sorry, but the government is already doing stuff like this due to the Patriot Act. AT&T giving the Bush Administration information on their customers without a search warrant.
Sorry, but the government is already doing stuff like this due to the Patriot Act. AT&T giving the Bush Administration information on their customers without a search warrant.
“Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak; and that it is doing God’s service when it is violating all his laws.” - John Adams
“Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak; and that it is doing God’s service when it is violating all his laws.” - John Adams
She’s still on the punish the leakers bit, something doesn’t smell right, a long-term board vet suddenly leaking? More sounds like some of the Directors were unhappy with the plan, and expressing discontent, that became “leaking”. Healthy companies don’t play up conspiracy theories, or target short-sellers or go paranoia city.
With “leaking”, it’s all relative, just like Scoble and others could get away with breaking NDAs left and right at Microsoft, but some front-line trooper that did nothing, yet wasn’t a “team player”, was always falsely saddled with breaking NDAs and leaking. It’s common practice to besmirch enemies with ‘leaking’…come guys, doncha know basic Wash DC-styled Political Warfare games? A leaker is not always a real leaker, sometimes (and more than you would think) he/she is just not on the program.
And extreme paranoia over leakers is crippling at best, and Stalinist at worst. But so much for her skills, tons of ways of filtering out and giving the suspected source tainted info and seeing where the blood shows up, or marking certain docs, no laws broken. Freshman CIA spy craft 101.
And this has long since been apart of Corporate Culture, once you join a Board, you are basically surrendering any shed of privacy, the price you pay. This stuff goes on daily. HP’s arrogance and overreach killed them here.
She’s still on the punish the leakers bit, something doesn’t smell right, a long-term board vet suddenly leaking? More sounds like some of the Directors were unhappy with the plan, and expressing discontent, that became “leaking”. Healthy companies don’t play up conspiracy theories, or target short-sellers or go paranoia city.
With “leaking”, it’s all relative, just like Scoble and others could get away with breaking NDAs left and right at Microsoft, but some front-line trooper that did nothing, yet wasn’t a “team player”, was always falsely saddled with breaking NDAs and leaking. It’s common practice to besmirch enemies with ‘leaking’…come guys, doncha know basic Wash DC-styled Political Warfare games? A leaker is not always a real leaker, sometimes (and more than you would think) he/she is just not on the program.
And extreme paranoia over leakers is crippling at best, and Stalinist at worst. But so much for her skills, tons of ways of filtering out and giving the suspected source tainted info and seeing where the blood shows up, or marking certain docs, no laws broken. Freshman CIA spy craft 101.
And this has long since been apart of Corporate Culture, once you join a Board, you are basically surrendering any shed of privacy, the price you pay. This stuff goes on daily. HP’s arrogance and overreach killed them here.
@31 You have a belief system based on a company????? Scary.
@31 You have a belief system based on a company????? Scary.
Digger,
Directors aren’t employees. They are elected by the company’s owners or shareholders. That’s often not recognized, even by boards.
Dunn used the company’s security department to carry out the investigation. The company — or management — was investigating its owners’ representatives, who are supposed to be watching management on their shareholders’ behalf.
Digger,
Directors aren’t employees. They are elected by the company’s owners or shareholders. That’s often not recognized, even by boards.
Dunn used the company’s security department to carry out the investigation. The company — or management — was investigating its owners’ representatives, who are supposed to be watching management on their shareholders’ behalf.
Bottom Line for me - Are Directors employees in a legal and privacy sense? I just want to understand the issue in this context. That is, if Dunn was using private assets, isn’t the issue confidentially agreement related? Were these violated?
Thanks - I’d appreciate any coments.
Bottom Line for me - Are Directors employees in a legal and privacy sense? I just want to understand the issue in this context. That is, if Dunn was using private assets, isn’t the issue confidentially agreement related? Were these violated?
Thanks - I’d appreciate any coments.
Part of what makes this so jarring is the incongruity of HP’s history of high corporate values and integrity with with the behavior we see at present.
Many years ago back at HP, I participated in an immersive / role-playing workshop as part of their internal executive training process, in which you were presented with an opportunity to lie/cheat/steal in support of your business objective. At the time, it was considered a grave error if you went down that path, and would probably get you bounced off the executive track.
This sort of thing has and undoubtedly still does continue among companies here in the valley. It’s sad and bizarre seeing it at HP, though.
Part of what makes this so jarring is the incongruity of HP’s history of high corporate values and integrity with with the behavior we see at present.
Many years ago back at HP, I participated in an immersive / role-playing workshop as part of their internal executive training process, in which you were presented with an opportunity to lie/cheat/steal in support of your business objective. At the time, it was considered a grave error if you went down that path, and would probably get you bounced off the executive track.
This sort of thing has and undoubtedly still does continue among companies here in the valley. It’s sad and bizarre seeing it at HP, though.
Dunn says, “I didn’t know.” She ordered the probe and didn’t bother to ask? What kind of chairman of a Fortune 500 company is that? Doesn’t ask how? My foot.
Media need to be much more aggressive on this. Worries me that they haven’t filed suit against HP already. Sends the wrong signal. Why would I ever talk frankly off-the-record to a reporter again if there’s a chance some company is going to set its goons on me?
The ramifications of this story seem to be lost on so many people it astounds me. Maybe you have to be a journalist to get it.
This is about freedom. Without a free, unfettered press what is America? Not even the FBI is allowed to do what HP did without first going before a judge with evidence.
And why is HP trying to gag its directors? They don’t work for the company. They are representatives of the shareholders, period. They are grown up, high capable people.
They owe a duty to protect the company, and if you read the article that got Dunn upset, it’s actually a really positive piece about a HP directors retreat where they thrashed out issues on the company’s strategy.
The only negative thing I saw in it was that Dunn made the directors work from early morning to 10 at night with only breaks for meals. What, she didn’t like being made out to be a bitch in the press so she ordered a probe that turned into the most damaging PR fiasco in history?
Dunn says, “I didn’t know.” She ordered the probe and didn’t bother to ask? What kind of chairman of a Fortune 500 company is that? Doesn’t ask how? My foot.
Media need to be much more aggressive on this. Worries me that they haven’t filed suit against HP already. Sends the wrong signal. Why would I ever talk frankly off-the-record to a reporter again if there’s a chance some company is going to set its goons on me?
The ramifications of this story seem to be lost on so many people it astounds me. Maybe you have to be a journalist to get it.
This is about freedom. Without a free, unfettered press what is America? Not even the FBI is allowed to do what HP did without first going before a judge with evidence.
And why is HP trying to gag its directors? They don’t work for the company. They are representatives of the shareholders, period. They are grown up, high capable people.
They owe a duty to protect the company, and if you read the article that got Dunn upset, it’s actually a really positive piece about a HP directors retreat where they thrashed out issues on the company’s strategy.
The only negative thing I saw in it was that Dunn made the directors work from early morning to 10 at night with only breaks for meals. What, she didn’t like being made out to be a bitch in the press so she ordered a probe that turned into the most damaging PR fiasco in history?
Dave: I probably should have gone after Sony too, but I can’t do every case like this. This hit home cause HP is such a big part of my childhood and belief system.
Dave: I probably should have gone after Sony too, but I can’t do every case like this. This hit home cause HP is such a big part of my childhood and belief system.
I agree with your stance on HP. I’ve never really liked their products (great quality and support, but too intrusive an installation and a sense of NIH syndrome). Nonetheless, I thought of them as a good company.
My question is, why do you seem to be treating this differently than you did Sony? To recap, Sony has faked movie reviews, installed malware and spyware, and treats consumers of its music and movies like criminals. I don’t remember you calling for the ouster of the Sony CEO for their behavior. Why is HP worse? Isn’t Sony worse for its treatment of thousands of customers, where HP just spied on itself and a few journalists?
I agree with your stance on HP. I’ve never really liked their products (great quality and support, but too intrusive an installation and a sense of NIH syndrome). Nonetheless, I thought of them as a good company.
My question is, why do you seem to be treating this differently than you did Sony? To recap, Sony has faked movie reviews, installed malware and spyware, and treats consumers of its music and movies like criminals. I don’t remember you calling for the ouster of the Sony CEO for their behavior. Why is HP worse? Isn’t Sony worse for its treatment of thousands of customers, where HP just spied on itself and a few journalists?
News on MSNBC is that the board called an emergency meeting probably for tomorrow. That should be interesting. If you really care about this, go to the HP BOD web page and “Mail the Board” and tell them what you think before their meeting.
News on MSNBC is that the board called an emergency meeting probably for tomorrow. That should be interesting. If you really care about this, go to the HP BOD web page and “Mail the Board” and tell them what you think before their meeting.
Brainwagon: I totally agree with your post here:
http://brainwagon.org/archives/2006/09/08/2149/
It gets just worse and worse. Look at Dunn’s latest: http://news.com.com/2100-1014_3-6113715.html
She is still doing the “ends justify the means” thing. She still doesn’t get it. And who handed over the board member’s social security numbers and phone numbers to this “private investigator firm?” Some low-level area associate? Give me a break.
If I tried to pull this crap I’d be out on the street without a severance package.
Brainwagon: I totally agree with your post here:
http://brainwagon.org/archives/2006/09/08/2149/
It gets just worse and worse. Look at Dunn’s latest: http://news.com.com/2100-1014_3-6113715.html
She is still doing the “ends justify the means” thing. She still doesn’t get it. And who handed over the board member’s social security numbers and phone numbers to this “private investigator firm?” Some low-level area associate? Give me a break.
If I tried to pull this crap I’d be out on the street without a severance package.
Michael, yeah. Last night I was talking with a few high-powered Silicon Valley types and they said stuff like this goes on all the time but we never hear about it. Well, that’s exactly why a message must be sent now. And a harsh one.
I totally agree with TechDirt and with you. No moral compass, just embarrassment at getting caught: http://techdirt.com/articles/20060908/145105.shtml