April 2, 2006

25 Comments »

1. Gee, that would sure make his car easy to steal. Just read his tag anytime, anywhere, and clone it.

   What a putz.

   Comment by J. Random Poster — April 2, 2006 @ 10:47 pm

2. On the other hand (har!), I’d rather have someone steal my keys and my hand.

   Comment by Byron — April 2, 2006 @ 10:47 pm

3. I wonder what he did about the antenna. The RFID chip is tiny - but you still need a decent sized antenna if you want it to work properly.

   I think your question about cost is a bit irrelevant: The BOM for an RFID solution with decent encryption isn’t going to be much more than $3-$5, which is less than noise if you’re talking about a new car and surgery :)

   Incidentally, he’s made it harder for himself to lock/unlock the car. I can unlock & lock my car from about 5m away - he can’t.

   Comment by David — April 2, 2006 @ 11:16 pm

4. RFID is about as secure as most MS products, which is to say, not very.

   So, no, I wouldn’t handle anything critical by RFID.

   Comment by Michiel — April 2, 2006 @ 11:20 pm

5. David: I meant how much did the surgery and the car antenna/system cost?

   Comment by scobleizer — April 2, 2006 @ 11:29 pm

6. 2 options for the would be thief

   1. Non desperate and sophisticated is to use a reader to get the information off the RFID and take your car

   2. Desperate is to lose your hand or a part of it

   The other problem is somebody will want to use it to track you once its in there. Big brother stuff.

   Advice: You have no freedom under greater threat…

   I went and saw Professor Sakamura speak at the University of Tasmania about six months ago on RFID Technology of which he was a pioneer and a leader in the field. On questioning he admitted we are about 10 years away from being ready for RFID in regards to security and ethical issues such as privacy.

   http://pigwork.info/2005/09/28/sakamura-and-rfid-technology/

   You can get development kits for these things so you can have all sorts of people develop RFID for their own purposes… so I’m no big fan. Lets tag convicts and gays and hey lets just tag everyone and put them into Google… :)

   Tell the government if they ever put one in your hand you’ll cut it off and live in the mountains with a crazy manifesto…

   Comment by nortypig — April 2, 2006 @ 11:44 pm

7. Professor Warwick at the University of Reading has done a great deal of work on the implanting of technology into humans and worked with Christopher Reeves. Fascinating read on the experiment. http://www.cyber.reading.ac.uk/projects.htm?viewproject&ID=0017

   Ray Kuzweils book the singularity talks about “how man will outgrow his biological limits and increase his value through integration with technology”. And I agree.

   I have thought about this topic before. What if I could have an internet search implant in my brain or body? What if I could search for any number or website just through thought. What if I could view a (virtual 3D) website in front of my eyes or I could hear music playing inside my head? Or take a picture of what I see just by blinking my eyes instead of a camera? No ipod, no PC, no wires no camera? What if I could share all of this with other people via some thought transaportation i.e real P2P.

   I am sure this will all come into to play in the future but at what cost to my privacy. Will the thought police limit what I can see, recall or share like the Chinese Government does with the web via the GYM club today. Implants do not worry me as I am already trackable by the government and other bodies via mobile phones, Sat Nav GPS devices and credit card payments even my web browsing. But what worries me will the benefit out way the loss of free thought?

   Comment by Sam Sethi — April 3, 2006 @ 12:35 am

8. Scoble: The $3-$5 figure would include the reader chip and antenna. Obviously it doesn’t include the cost of the plastics/wiring/integration etc. though. My point was just that the price isn’t really a hardware issue. How much would it cost? Probably about as much as people are willing to pay …. :)

   As for the people saying it would be easy to read the tag and so insecure: 3DES encryption is pretty standard in RFID tags nowadays

   Comment by David — April 3, 2006 @ 12:54 am

9. Mmm… 3DES I don’t specifically know about but people are out there scanning bank and credit cards like bejesus so I’m assuming the hand implant to simply get into your car will be as vulnerable.

   Maybe I’m naive and more people want to be alphabetized robots than I figured lol.

   Enjoy the ride :)

   Comment by nortypig — April 3, 2006 @ 1:43 am

10. nortypig: there is simply no comparison between very easily readable magnetic strips on credit cards and modern RFIDs. One has no security, one does. Is it hackable? Well, no system is perfect - but if you’re happy using e.g. internet banking, you should be happy using this.

    As for privacy issues - why do these always come up when people talk about RFID? Unless people seriously think the government will start mandating that all car-users must have a government-defined tag implanted (or BMW require it before they’ll sell you a car) what’s the problem? Yes, there are general long-term privacy issues related to RFID - but not with car locks surely?

    Comment by David — April 3, 2006 @ 2:48 am

11. Hi David
    I will have to take Professor Sakamura’s word on the security / ethical issues with RFID. But I can see its potential even if I know these things have a way of becoming what they weren’t invented to do. Science is like that.

    So we’ll have to agree to disagree lol. Which is fine and what makes the world an interesting place (minus the unabomber of course).

    Its bedtime in Tasmania so I’ll have to dip out of the conversation now but its an interesting one. Goodnight everyone.

    Comment by nortypig — April 3, 2006 @ 3:40 am

12. “The chip itself is only $1.50, and I was able to get a 125KHz sensor/reader for $50, so the total project cost so far is about $60 with shipping and everything. An electronic strike for the front door will probably run anywhere from $50 to $80 I’d imagine, and the time and cables to get it all hooked up to a computer.”

    Comment by /pd — April 3, 2006 @ 7:03 am

13. “As for privacy issues - why do these always come up when people talk about RFID?”

    The encryption on the chip isn’t going to amount to a hill of beans if somebody gets a hold of your information, you realize, that right? Do you not pay attention to the identity theft issues in the news? Sometimes all it takes is a stolen laptop, a lost CD, or some disgruntled employee and thousands of accounts get compromised. Having an all chip based system would actually make it worse, not better. What’s with the fetish of putting a chip under your skin? Ever thought if you need an MRI what might happen to that chip?

    Comment by Sir John — April 3, 2006 @ 7:12 am

14. So if you sell your car you get to reinstall all of this right? Last time I counted I had 3+ cars.

    To have one of the “normal” remote door unlocker/car starter controls installed costs at least $300 per car.

    Comment by Mike Drips — April 3, 2006 @ 7:54 am

15. appears to be a solution looking for a problem.

    Comment by Dmad — April 3, 2006 @ 1:29 pm

16. Implanting in hand? I am guessing he’s never read Orwell or say The Book of Revelation?

    But to kick in some heavy theology…

    Of course, in Revelation 14:9, you have to WORSHIP, before you “receive the mark”. Only one verse hooks in the “buying and selling”. So technically, the “mark” is less a ‘biochip’ and more some outward sign of allegiance to the “beast”.

    “A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.” - Rev. 14:9-10 (NIV)

    “…had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.” - Rev. 16:2

    But here’s the interesting kicker which most scare-mongering preachers do not explore…

    “And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.” - Revelation 15:2

    “Gotten victory over”…so even if given the ‘mark’ it’s not an automatic condemnation, rather more in the ‘act of worship.’

    So some of the biochip as the ‘mark of the beast’ is wholly overwrought, that being said, way way too ‘Neo-Fascist Police-State Fourth Reichy, V for Vendetta’ feeling for me.

    Comment by Christopher Coulter — April 3, 2006 @ 2:01 pm

17. Hey,

    I posted about this sort of thing a week or so ago: http://www.madprops.org/cs/blogs/crucible/archive/2006/03/28/4545.aspx

    It was discussed on DNR a couple of weeks ago, and was on Good Morning America about two months ago - http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Technology/story?id=1699462&page=1

    A man named Amal Graafstra from Vancouver has had one implanted that opens his car, his front door, and his computer security, among other things - plus his girlfriend had a matching one implanted as well.

    Comment by crucible — April 3, 2006 @ 3:01 pm

18. “Only one verse hooks in the “buying and selling”. So technically, the “mark” is less a ‘biochip’ and more some outward sign of allegiance to the “beast”.”

    For those folks who are not clear on the “buying and selling verse” (Revelation 13:16-17, NIV):

    “He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.”

    Going by that verse, it does imply an economic-type mark, and of course, all of this taken with many rather invasive technologies that are being put in place in Great Britain (the National ID card database complete with fingerprints of potentialy everybody in the country, vehicle tracking, etc.) does give all of this a sort of 1984 feel…no thanks.

    The thing is, this is not the only place implanted chips are being tested…they were even put into dead Hurricane Katrina victims as a means of identification.

    Comment by Sir John — April 4, 2006 @ 5:05 am

19. We cover building this type of project and 10 others in our book, RFID Toys.

    The author, Amal Graafstra, was one of the first to have a chip implanted in his hand.

    If you are interested in this sort of stuff, grab a copy.

    Comment by Chris — April 5, 2006 @ 8:01 am

20. Of Space Phlebotomy and Chipped Teeth

    Then again, maybe no one should be embarrassed by this. After all one person’s idea of a joke is often turns into someone else’s idea of “crazy enough to work.” Scoble recently posted about a guy who implanted an RFID chip into his hand and posted …

    Trackback by Really Rocket Science — April 11, 2006 @ 12:48 pm

21. A late post but i notice Wired magazine - http://www.wired.com/wired/ - have had a few RFID related tales lately. You’ll notice the one due on May 5 states

    “They can steal your smartcard, jack your car, or even clone the chip in your arm. And you won’t feel a thing. Five tales from the newest cybercrime frontier.”

    Like I said earlier Professor Sakamura was a leader in this field and he said in person it would be a good 10 years before we’re up with the security and privacy issues of RFID. Its way vulnerable.

    Sorry for the late post but it seemed very relevant to this conversation.

    Comment by nortypig — May 2, 2006 @ 9:31 pm

22. http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.05/rfid_pr.html

    Comment by nortypig — May 5, 2006 @ 10:02 pm

23. […] Scoble posted at the beginning of april a light hearted banter about some guy who had a surgically implanted RFID and I got mildly involved in the comments. Only there was some guy in there going on and on about how RFID is secure and seemed to be able to output all of the right terms to sound knowledgable, so I agreed to disagree and went to bed. […]

    Pingback by Pig Work - Web Standards Compliant Web Design Blog » Blog Archive » RFID On The Streets — May 5, 2006 @ 10:21 pm

24. I’m sorry but i think security issue on this is being way over played. These things have a 2-3 inch read radius. If you don’t want the government tracking you or someone stealing your car don’t put your hand directly on top of a reader. And if you think someone may have gotten a read on your chip, it will take them sometime to crack the encryption. You should be able to unplug the system in your car and dust off your car keys with plenty of time to spare.

    As for getting your hand cut off, the average car theif will quickly figure out you don’t have a car key and take your wallet instead. Besides its easier to use a slim jim and crack the stearing column than it is to saw through bone, if your theif happens to have a surgical saw on him.

    Comment by Logan — June 24, 2006 @ 5:57 pm

25. secure? lol… 2-3 inches ‘now’ and I’m pretty sure that’s probably busted already… if they will shoot you to carjack you why not take your chip - which may also be for your secure office not necessarily your car so that’s not entirely an unrealistic option…

    … also if Ken Sakamura says openly that this stuff is not going to be secure for another 10 years (nine now) or private - why are you feeling secure?

    if you work for the government even bigger lol on the security thing.

    Comment by nortypig — June 16, 2007 @ 3:59 pm

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