MSN Vice President Christopher Payne is at the front of the room right now and is being grilled by the search champs about what they gave the government and when they gave it.
Some clarifications. No IP addresses or identifying information was given over. They also asked for more information in the beginning and MSN said no (Gary Flake said that) and renegotiated to make sure that no personal identifyable information was handed over.
I’ll track this conversation on blogs. I wish this were being recorded. It’s like being in a White House press conference.
The search champs has a whole session on this topic later today.
One of the attendees said that this is the first time that everyday people realized that search engines track a lot of things and that those things could be given over to governmental bodies. I didn’t catch his name, sorry.
Another attendee asked us to work with Google and Yahoo and other search engine companies to have a unified front and not to use this as a PR issue to play one company against the other.
Payne says that he realizes that they need to be far more transparent about these issues.
Heh, funny that a big PR Event becomes a PR CYA Event, MSN and Yahoo playing cards with Feds on a witchhunt, Google bending to Commies for a buck, attracting Congressional attention.
It’s just that MSN/AOL/Yahoo so willing gave it up, without so much as a fight, when such will just be used to create another burdensome regluation. It’s not even good business-sense. But games like this are hard to win in the PR sense, stare down Feds on good principle, get accused of supporting child porn, but give them what they want willingly, become another tattle-tale East German Stasi; MSN choose the easy way out, ‘inoffizielle mitarbeiter’, indeed.
They also asked for more information in the beginning and MSN said no (Gary Flake said that) and renegotiated
Umm don’t try and spin this, unbelieveable. So now MSN is the hero, only giving the Feds half of what they want. And plus now, after the fact, MSN realizes it’s a mistake; pat on head, nice nice doggie, have a treat. Wheee. But let me guess, next time around, they will have to “realize” their mistake all over again. Come on, don’t be such a dupe. Microsoft has some of the most obvious spin-doctoring out there. The attempts to explain away the Xbox 360 supply-chain management problems, are near works of art. Microsoft makes great excuses, indeed some of the best in the industry.
everyday people realized that search engines track a lot of things and that those things could be given over to governmental bodies.
Yup. Search engines just playing the search game for free when they are but advertising and data-collection spyware and marketing engines. No surprise to me, so such thing as a free lunch, but good that it’s getting to Mom and Pop and Joe Public. If anything it all backfires, those you most have to worry about, will take measures of great sleath, and the great masses with be eternally spied upon.
Heh, funny that a big PR Event becomes a PR CYA Event, MSN and Yahoo playing cards with Feds on a witchhunt, Google bending to Commies for a buck, attracting Congressional attention.
It’s just that MSN/AOL/Yahoo so willing gave it up, without so much as a fight, when such will just be used to create another burdensome regluation. It’s not even good business-sense. But games like this are hard to win in the PR sense, stare down Feds on good principle, get accused of supporting child porn, but give them what they want willingly, become another tattle-tale East German Stasi; MSN choose the easy way out, ‘inoffizielle mitarbeiter’, indeed.
They also asked for more information in the beginning and MSN said no (Gary Flake said that) and renegotiated
Umm don’t try and spin this, unbelieveable. So now MSN is the hero, only giving the Feds half of what they want. And plus now, after the fact, MSN realizes it’s a mistake; pat on head, nice nice doggie, have a treat. Wheee. But let me guess, next time around, they will have to “realize” their mistake all over again. Come on, don’t be such a dupe. Microsoft has some of the most obvious spin-doctoring out there. The attempts to explain away the Xbox 360 supply-chain management problems, are near works of art. Microsoft makes great excuses, indeed some of the best in the industry.
everyday people realized that search engines track a lot of things and that those things could be given over to governmental bodies.
Yup. Search engines just playing the search game for free when they are but advertising and data-collection spyware and marketing engines. No surprise to me, so such thing as a free lunch, but good that it’s getting to Mom and Pop and Joe Public. If anything it all backfires, those you most have to worry about, will take measures of great sleath, and the great masses with be eternally spied upon.
invited influential bloggers.
Oh brother. Someone that has had a zillion papers published and really given back to the biz community, in terms of serious research, yet gets passed over as not a blogger? Well Search Champs isn’t anything but PR then, sorta a Mobius for MSN. Myopia is blindness.
invited influential bloggers.
Oh brother. Someone that has had a zillion papers published and really given back to the biz community, in terms of serious research, yet gets passed over as not a blogger? Well Search Champs isn’t anything but PR then, sorta a Mobius for MSN. Myopia is blindness.
Trust and Privacy in Web 2.0: Microsoft, Search, and the DOJ
I’m sitting here in the front row next to Robert Scoble at Microsoft Search Champs listening to a great talk by Microsoft Fellow Gary Flake about the Internet Singularity and the creation of Live Labs (a fascinating development which I’ll dedicate an
Oh, and Scobleizer -
I now realize why you can’t answer my question regarding Microsoft dropping Windows Media Player.
Because it’s tied to Microsoft’s decision to enter the mobile music player market. That’s right folks — MS is going to take on the iPod with games as its differentiator. Namely, Live Arcade games that can be transferred to the device.
My only questions is did you fly Elton John in or not?
That should read ‘Microsoft dropping Windows Media Player for the Mac.
Oh, and Scobleizer -
I now realize why you can’t answer my question regarding Microsoft dropping Windows Media Player.
Because it’s tied to Microsoft’s decision to enter the mobile music player market. That’s right folks — MS is going to take on the iPod with games as its differentiator. Namely, Live Arcade games that can be transferred to the device.
My only questions is did you fly Elton John in or not?
That should read ‘Microsoft dropping Windows Media Player for the Mac.
[...] Alex and Joshua are talking about this as well. Update: Dion and Robert Scoble also have their takes on this. [...]
Hello-
My name is Captain B. A Capt in Iraq and was inquiring about producing my blog into a book. Man do I know you probably get a ton of these type of inquiries but I figured what the heck, I have RPGS shot at me, I haven’t seen my family for than 60 day in 2 years why not email these guys. Regardless if you’re about hit “delete”, please support our troops. Semper Fi, Capt B
http://shepherdaway.blogspot.com/
Hello-
My name is Captain B. A Capt in Iraq and was inquiring about producing my blog into a book. Man do I know you probably get a ton of these type of inquiries but I figured what the heck, I have RPGS shot at me, I haven’t seen my family for than 60 day in 2 years why not email these guys. Regardless if you’re about hit “delete”, please support our troops. Semper Fi, Capt B
http://shepherdaway.blogspot.com/
Just to clear up some stupid points here:
1. The “caving to Chinese censorship is EVIL!” line is a bit naive. Is it distasteful? Absolutely. But, look at how China got to the point where it’s at - further integration with the global market economy saw a further political liberalization within the country. This good and evil split is counter-productive. Global politics are just never that easy.
2. The collection of records isn’t evil or illegal. Phone records? Credit records? Driving record? There’s tons of information available about you and everyone else out there. Unless you live in an information bubble, you’re already out there in the ether. Stop acting so surprised. It’s not the collection that’s the problem, it’s the legal means by which the government is trying to attain it - no matter what kind of records these were (let’s say anonymous phone numbers instead of web sites), it would be noxious for the government to try to drift-net that stuff without proper legal footing.
Just to clear up some stupid points here:
1. The “caving to Chinese censorship is EVIL!” line is a bit naive. Is it distasteful? Absolutely. But, look at how China got to the point where it’s at - further integration with the global market economy saw a further political liberalization within the country. This good and evil split is counter-productive. Global politics are just never that easy.
2. The collection of records isn’t evil or illegal. Phone records? Credit records? Driving record? There’s tons of information available about you and everyone else out there. Unless you live in an information bubble, you’re already out there in the ether. Stop acting so surprised. It’s not the collection that’s the problem, it’s the legal means by which the government is trying to attain it - no matter what kind of records these were (let’s say anonymous phone numbers instead of web sites), it would be noxious for the government to try to drift-net that stuff without proper legal footing.
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[...] I attended the MSN Search Champs today….and what a day. Given the recent news and concerns around the data MSN Search, Yahoo and AOL provided to the government, there was a session set up where the 57 bloggers / online experts at MSN Search Champ were invited to discuss the topic with senior MSN management (Senior VP Yusuf Mehdi and VP Chris Payne).As Robert Scoble wrote, MSN VP Chris Payne took the opportunity to confirm that no IP address or PII (Personally Identifiable Information) was provided. It became apparent to me at least, that many (maybe the majority) of the MSN Search Champs didn't realize this prior to today's event. I think this misundertanding is one of the reasons there was such a deal and story made front page news in the media and in the blogosphere.And so conversation started.And it carried on into the night, even after the event was over - here's a podcast (mp3, 42 mins, 10mb) recorded tonight to discuss what we heard and learnt today. We had five Web 2.0 Workgroup members on the podcast: Fred Oliveira (post), Dion Hinchcliffe (post), Joshua Porter (post), and myself. We also had Chris Pirillo, Thomas Vander Wal of Infocloud the organizer of MSN's Search Champs, Brady Forrest. Michael Arrington, Richard MacManus and Live Side have some info on their first day at MSN Search Champs.download the podcast (mp3, 42 mins, 10mb)-Update: Thursday 26 2006: One point of clarification since the podcast was provided to me by Ramez Naam, director of program management at MSN Search: the DOJ did not ask MSN for PII specifically. They asked for MSN Search logs. MSN told them that they would not give them PII and they were fine with that. [...]
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